Micheal, I just noticed that you already have the areas in red as being owned by WIDOT, do you know when this happened, or how I can look it up?

I can't really tell when the ownership changed. This is where I got my information: http://stcroixwi.mapping-online.com/StCroixCoWi/default.htm

Thanks Micheal. I haven't talked to this guy in several years, so maybe he came to a reasonable settlement with the state, and my outrage for him is a waste time. I hope that is the case.

I agree Shawn. I've met Ed - he's a pretty good guy, but I would say he's "old school". And believe me, Ed's overall finances won't be hurt by this thing...unlike the farmer I mention below.

I think it was seventy-some homes that were torn down.

How much land would have to be taken for your version? Which parcels would be affected? Who owns those parcels?

Google Stillwater Mn and look at the area in photo mode you see NO farmland.

Land needed for the bridge in Minnesota the area in OPH could be traded to get the property for the suspension bridge.

MInnesota land cost reduction realized in the savings going from the $700m Lake Saint Croix bridge to a suspension bridge costing $300m. Roadwork on Manning and 96 could be completed for $100m and the net result would still be a savings of $300m.

Copper plating the suspension bridge would turn a pleaseing green color in short order and would replace the lift bridge as a work of art allowing it to be removed with restoration of the riverbed.

For a bike/pedestrian Stillwater bridge a new suspension bridge could be constructed and the total cost would still be far less than the proposed MILE LONG bridge over Lake Saint Croix.

It's unfortunate the bridge decision makers don't understand a NEW LOOK is warrented fo this needed bridge. It has been what 30 years since this bridge was first proposed and been locked in litigation for those 30 years. Things have changed over those years and a FRESH LOOK is due for this project.

Heck just the fact that the authorization be Congress to construct a bridge over the Saint Croix River and NOT Lake Saint Croix shows how out of touch the decision makers are on this issue.

The is no need for a 4 lane bridge to carry 20k vehicles a day. MnDOT has 4 lane highways with stoplights carrying 40k vehicles, 36 through Oakdale.

Let me know when you build the necessary coalition to make that happen.

Can you be counted on as a member?

No. I support the option that spent decades already building a coalition and that puts a bridge next to a smokestack, not a currently pristine and beautifully wild area.

Jim, the cost of the bridge itself -- just the bridge -- that has been approved to be built over the St. Croix River is $292 million. So it's already cheaper than your $300 million suspension bridge.

Throw in the additional costs of Minnesota-Wisconsin approaches to the bridge, four-lane roads connecting Hwy. 36 to Hwy. 64, mitigation costs to protect the bluffs and historic features, contingency/risk costs, going back to the drawing board for new design, re-engineering, years-long delays to the project, the subsequent increased costs of inflation and the inevitable legal challenges invited by starting over . . . and your "solution" ends up costing anywhere from 25 percent to 50 percent more than the approved project.

Plus, if there's no muck north of the Lift Bridge, you should notify the Army Corps of Engineers because they're responsible for the dredging that maintains a 9-foot main channel north of the bridge. But then you seem to know a lot about muck since your ideas are clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Michael,

How long will the smokestack remain? IMHO, when Obama is re-elected all coal burners will be decomissioned.

You would rather have a 5,000 foot bridge over a pristine Lake with 15 pileings IN THE LAKE rather than a 2,000 foot bridge over a river with NO IMPACT on the riverbed, that was approved by Congress?

There is no argument to support the proposed bridge unless it's needed to support development in Wisconsin much like the I94 bridge in Hudson. In that case the bridge better be expanded to 6 lanes and highway 36 also needs 6 lanes. Build it right or the highway will get congested and then need expansion in 10 years and MnDOT will not have the expansion on their list for 20 years. On and on we go...

When Obama is re-elected he also supports $6/gal gas, you really think these long range bridges will be needed with high priced gas?

I'll save this thread. In four years, when the bridge is built in four years and Obama is president, we'll see whether the smokestack is there and what the price of gas is.

Micheal,

Notice on an arial photo of the area north of Stillwater due west of the Anderson Scout road. There are residential housing units in that area, NOT a pristine river.

If you have ever boated up the Saint Croix River you would know there is a railroad tressel over the river. Many manmade structures are located on the Saint Croix, it's NOT a pristine river. It is a neat river to access because ther are not many houses once you get above Stillwater and many camp out on the river but since designated as a Wild and Scenic river much camping has been restricted.

If you ever noticed a chemical sheen on the water in the backwaters of the Saint Croix River that comes from a superfund cleanup dump site from th headwater area of the "Pristine" Saint Croix River. You can still see the chemical dump which is 8 miles east of Bruno Minnesota and 1.5 miles south. Note the dark lake on the south side of the road, it isn't water. FYI, Twin Cities refineries dumped BILLIONS of gallons of nasty chemicals at that site for many years and it was never cleaned up because of the volume and because it spread all the way down the Tamarak river to the Saint Croix.

Sorry to pee in your Wheaties but she ain't "Pristine", don't be drinking the water.

Oh, OK. If there's no need to maintain it's beauty, then we should just build a bridge where it makes the most sense, probably where the population center is.

Is building a bridge near the population center a good idea?

Isn't that where the lift bridge is located?

And how has that worked out?

MAYBE building a bridge for commuter traffic should be constructed away from population centers?

Look at highway 36, years ago, North Saint Paul "leaders" decided having highway 36 constructed right through the heart of the town. All that achieved was to divide the town AND cause a lot of accidents killing and injuring lots of people, BTW the deaths on 36 continue today. In fact the 120/36 intersection is rated 5th most dangerous in Minnesota.

So a couple of years ago highway 36 in North Saint Paul was upgraded and now look at it. There is only one exit ramp to Margaret street. No longer do city "leaders" think it's a good idea to have a highway through the middle of the town. Again highway 36 at 120 is the 5th most dangerous in the state.

The beat goes on and on. The clear ignorance of Minnesota highway design is clear.

The Bachmann, Kobachar, Fanken, Obama Bridge to Nowhere will be constructed and cause another set of problems to waste more taxdollars on.

Can't fix stupid!

Jim, you can't just make stuff up and state it as fact. There has never been a Superfund Cleanup Site that has anything to do with chemical dumping near Bruno. Check the EPA site at http://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/srchrslt.cfm?Start=276&sortby=cnty

You have to realize we're in a time now when people can actually check on your assertions. And virtually nothing you say has any basis in fact.

With all due respect Bob, I have hunted the area of the chemical dump site since 1963. Initially we had to plug our noses when driving by the dump site. Slowly since the site was closed to dumping after being designated are a superfund cleanup site the smell has diminished.

A local farmer named Art Bud was paid to monitor the site, RIP Art, for years.

We witnessed truck tankers hauling waste byproducts to the site for many years and one spring witnessed a tanker being pulled to the site with 4 wheel drive 8 tire farm tractors.

It doesn't suprise me the Government has logically covered up the site, another example of Government at it's worst.

Take a ride up there to the site and you will encounter yellow "Keep Out" signs and a gate to the entrance of the site, no longer stinks. All the chemicals are in the ground and have floated off into the Saint Croix via the Tamarak river..

So were you hunting for two-headed deer, Jim? Sorry, but conspiracy theories and suspicions don't substitute for facts. Maybe that "chemical sheen" on the water is gasoline and oil from boats that ply the waters of the river -- like you see in any river or lake with motorized boat traffic. By the way, Bruno is about 40 miles from the headwaters of the St. Croix in Solon Springs, Wisconsin.

Water from the Tamarac river flows directly into the Saint Croix river and the water from the chemical dump site flows directly into the Tamarack river. All this flowage is in the Saint Croix river watershed. Of course you know this and are just having a little fun, right Bob?

You pay for 1/2 the gas and I'll take you for a tour of the toxic waste dump near Bruno. It's a 1.5 hour drive wth the last 8 miles on dirt.

We may even see a 2 headed deer with black helicopters flying overhead.

Have a fine time on the "Pristine Saint Croix River", NOT.

Jim, a friend of mine at the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency directed me to a 2004 report on "Condition of Rivers and Streams in the St. Croix River Basin."

That report states that "water quality in the basin was found to be generally good from a chemical perspective," that "streams in the St. Croix River Basin were generally in fair to excellent condition," and stressed that it was important to maintain maintain the "excellent condition of the St. Croix River, a most valuable resource."

No mention of a toxic waste dump polluting the St. Croix via the Tamarack. I suppose it's just another government cover-up.

Bob,

What would call a toxic waste dump used by a refinery for an unknown number of years to dump unknown quantities of liquid stuff into?

And now there is NO TRACE of it in any publication, web site or other source. Would you call that transparency, Bob?

BTW, my offer stands if you want a tour of the site, or anyone else for that matter.

I understand Bob nor anyone else wants to see the dump site. It IS NOT pretty. Bob and anyone else who should care about this dump site reallys knows it exists. Bob is just playing games, won't take a tour of something he knows exists.

I can give you a long list of local contacts who will tell you all about the dump. At this point in time it's stuffed under the rug. In the chemical industry you know "the solution to pollution is dilution". And in this case the dilution is provided by the Tamarak River, Saint Croix River, Lake Saint Croix, Mississippi River and ultimatly the Gulf of Mexico.

Jim: If you've got so much to say about this dump site, why don't you take advantage of our Local Voices platform. You'll have your own spot on Patch to say whatever you like. Sign up at http://stillwater.patch.com/blog/apply

Not much more to say regarding the pollution of the "Pristine Saint Croix River".

I'll be happy to give a guided tour of the toxic dump site if anyone is interested. Of course permition would be needed from the owner.

Perhaps you could do a video tour and post it on Local Voices.

Susan,

Will you join a coalition to oppose the proposed bridge?

Jim, I'm sorry, but I think I have thrown in the towel. If you could get someone at the Federal level to pay attention, I might reconsider, but I have a hard time seeing anything changing, and having gotten this far, I really believe any further delays will add to the price, without changing a thing...lesson learned.

I am curious, was your suspension bridge ever brought up when MNDOT was reviewing and rejecting all other options?

I think Bob has a valid point when stating that there would be additional costs, just as there are with the extradosed design. I have no idea if they would be as much, but I am 99.99 percent certain this current design will go forward.

The property in lower OPH for the new bridge was aquired about 15 years ago, Jim. On the WI side, it was unknown exactly where the bridge would connect, but most of the plans for the MN side used the same place.

In Wisconsin 158th ave or Anderson Scout Camp road would be used and where it breaks south on the bluff the bridge could begin and run directly across the Saint Croix River.

Minnesota residential property could be traded for the previously taken residential property in OPH or emmient domain could be used . The property that has been sitting empty in OPH could be liquidated which would be worth more money than the property north of Stillwater.

The route across a narrows crossing north of Stillwater could use Manning to 95 to the bridge. A 2 lane road with no stopsigns or stoplights could easily handle 20,000 vehicles per day. Highway 36 in Maplewood and Oakdale is 4 lanes, handles 40,000 vehicles per day and it has numerous stoplights on it.

Unless Wisconsin develops like Hudson there is no need to construct a 4 lane bridge across Lake Saint Croix. With the price of gas skyrocketing, President Obama is planning to see to it that gas costs well over $5/gal in his second term. It is his way of reducing oil consumption by the USA, not a bad idea.

In any case commuting 20 miles from Wisconsin to the cities won't be an option for the average Joe or Jane for that matter.

Night CB.

Manning to 96 to 95 to the Scout Camp road in Wisc, as if you couldn't figure it out.

Manning to 96 to 95 to the Scout Camp road in Wisc, as if you couldn't figure it out.

I was at the open house too. I'll have a story about it in the next day or two. The map above shows the land that DOT currently owns (acquired in the '90s), but they'll actually have to acquire a different corridor further south and east. Hopefully when they sell the other land off they give first dibs to the people they originally took it from.

Thanks for the update on the WIDOT land purchase date that I spoke of earlier. Seems my information was incorrect, or I was misled.