These meetings are open to the public, Susan.

Wonderful. I'm glad to hear they are doing this and doing it more than just one time. I still question the necessity and cost vs. benefit regarding the survey, but having these informational meetings is a great start to more community involvement and input.

And something for those without children in our schools to consider - one of the most powerful and influential people now in Washington D.C. got his start in our school district. Although I am confident he worked very hard to get where he is, a good start at a great school certainly helps.

Now we must look at the numbers...

I agree, and no I didn't know it went that far with virtually no results. Was Corey Lunn the superintendent at the time?

I was thinking about this just last week. We have the Internet with many, many options for schooling online. The government could save an actual fortune by moving our public school system online. The biggest problem and/or objection would be from parents as most work during the day and they would be required to pay for some kind of child care expense for children in elementary school. Others will argue that children learn valuable social skills at school. Markus, I think you and I will agree that the negative social interactions far outweigh the positive social interactions that our children now have in school.

I think it would be a good idea to start moving our public education system online, at least for junior and senior high, but the pushback from many, many factions will probably shut this idea down before it even gets started.

"The biggest problem and/or objection would be from parents as most work during the day and they would be required to pay for some kind of child care expense for children in elementary school."

This is exactly the problem. Unfortunately it is a cultural one. We expect the state to care for our children and "educate" them while we're away at work. Because they have come to depend on it, removing the built in daycare aspect of public school would be devastating for many two income households. Changing would require a huge paradigm shift most aren't willing to accept.

Being involved in the home school community has given me an opportunity to meet a lot of home schooled kids. The difference I see between them and "schooled" kids is their ability to interact with and act like adults. After all, we're training them to be successful adults, right? Our culture seems to have this warped view that we should "socialize" our children with other children. In other words, train them to be children. How we've morphed in the last hundred years from being an adult centered society to being youth centered.

Most of us being products of the current educational model haven't questioned the model because we don't know any better. Personally, the public school system did little to benefit me, particularly after elementary school. I could have quit after eighth grade and been none the worse for wear. For all intents and purposes, I did quit. Except for shop class, which I excelled in.

Susan, I assume your kid(s) are older, but when exactly was the last time you stepped foot in a public school? To suggest "the negative social interactions far outweigh the positive social interactions that our children now have in school" is not even close to being accurate. I'm not saying bullying and other problems don't occur, but to state the negatives outweigh the positives is pure baloney. If you want to prepare kids for living in their parents basement then by all means continue to push online education. I am no fan of the never ending appetite our schools have for tax dollars, but there are pros and cons to all of the options available. Charter schools do nothing but take money away from traditional public schools and is nothing more a duplication of services that does not serve the taxpayers. There is simply no reason for St. Croix Prep and its $20 million building to even exist with the high performing traditional public schools already in place. Home schooling does produce good results in many cases, but anyone who home schools their kids will take an active role in the education of those same kids to begin with, regardless of whether they are doing the teaching or sending them off to a traditional public school every day so they would likely excel in either situation.

Randy, on this issue, you and I will have to agree to disagree. For several reasons (even the daycare issue), I would agree with you in regards to elementary school, but not for junior and senior high. Yes, my kid graduated in 2011 and I know many kids who graduated with him. I would have to say that in the big picture, the negative social experiences far outweigh the positives. Although we are fortunate to live in an area where our schools are very good and offer many options for the kids, it should not be the tax payer's responsibility to do anything other than pay for our next generation to get a basic education. This can now be done online and you're right in that most kids who are home schooled do much better (on average) than those in public schools. You're also right in noting that parent involvement in home schooling is probably the largest factor in those kids doing so well. Online learning teaches (besides the actual education) personal responsibility in the way of self discipline and initiative, with many more options for working at advanced levels for those able to do so. It can also work for more intense learning and focus for those that might need extra help in areas. Kids are focused on their work, not on who is dating who, what's going on after school, and yes, an unbalanced and often vicious social network which is indeed having more negative effects than positive.

cont...

Parents who home school usually choose to have their kids participate in outside activities. Whether it is sports or a different learning experience, this is usually a better way to socialize our tweens and teens than the social nightmare out schools have become.

It's too bad your child apparently did not have a rewarding high school experience socially, Susan, at least I assume that's where your feelings stem from, but I don't think that is more common than not.

Here is a paragraph taken from a Huffington Post story and while I didn't look at the studies cited, there appears to be a lot of questions about the success rate of on-line only education. It's not easy finding research that does not involve clear biases by those pushing an agenda for or against cyber education.

"Almost every cyber-school in Ohio ranked below average on student academic growth in preliminary report published by the state last week. A Stanford study last year found cyber-students in Pennsylvania made "significantly smaller gains in reading and math" than peers in traditional public schools. And Tennessee's first virtual school was slapped with the lowest possible score for student growth in recently released state rankings, putting it in the bottom 11 percent of schools."

On-line learning can help children build self discipline, but can also turn them into anti-social hermits who miss out aspects of education like discussion, debate and collaboration. I'm sure for some this might be the case, but would be surprised if the majority of traditional public school students view their experience as a "social nightmare", minus the occasional male erection while standing at the chalk board.

Online schools are still fairly new and have many bugs and kinks to work out. Just as with almost everything else, they will get better as the educators learn what works and what doesn't. Skype (and similar) are great for conferencing, and even for your examples of discussions, debates and collaboration.

I'm sure it's probably my altruistic nature, Susan, but I don't feel the incidents you refer to that reach the mainstream media are typical for most children at most schools, but rather the exception. I certainly hope your experience with today's public schools is more the exception. I would also suggest that while your defense of online education and those kinks getting worked out should also apply to the increased efforts to curb bullying and other forms of mistreatment in our schools. The other issue with this cyber education outfits is that (much like St. Croix Prep and some other charter schools) it seems like nothing more than a big money grab that fleeces the taxpayers more than traditional public schools ever could.

Randy, there's almost no way to fix/stop the bullying and the kids know it. More times than not, if a kid reaches out for help, the bullying gets worse, usually by friends of the bully, or the bully gets more clever. As I mentioned, maybe you would have a better understanding if you were to talk to a variety of kids from different social groups in junior high and high school.

As I said to Markus, moving schools online with be at a savings to the tax payer, not a higher cost. No new schools, no costs to maintain, heat, and cool the buildings, no costs involved with busing etc.

We are no where near this becoming any kind of reality but it will be an option in the near future, I would bet.

Randy, here is another example of problems in our public high schools:

Patch has rejected this comment again, so please go to KSTP and then search: "From Pets to 'Recess': High School Stress Relief

A very small excerpt:
"Overall, a recent national survey of adolescent mental health found that about 8 to 10 percent of teens ages 13 to 18 have an anxiety disorder. And of those teens, only 18 percent received mental health care, according to the National Institute of Mental Health.

School officials across the country, meanwhile, say they're seeing a steady uptick in mental health referrals, often stress-related. Timothy Dorway, a principal at a high school in Chanhassen, Minn., just outside Minneapolis, is among them. He says such referrals have doubled since his school opened in 2009.

"We're asking these kids to do things that we don't even ask adults to do," Dorway says, noting sports and academic requirements that often leave them sleep-deprived.

Besides the mental health issues, he noted that students from his school have been in car accidents after falling asleep at the wheel - one of them on the way to school, at 7:45 a.m."

One more quick thing, Randy, as I just heard the statistic. Currently, one out of five teens are bullied.

"An investment is something that you put $$ into and expect it to return a profit. "

The "profit" in this case is human capital, i.e. an educated workforce. The investment has a return to society (creating an input into every cash profitable endeavor).

If there were no perceived profit (gain) from this investment it would be eliminated.

Keeping in mind the Stillwater school district is more concerned about appearances rather than actual honesty and effectiveness, Edward has this one right.

Well, Randy, I'll agree with you that the school boards wants the appearance of an "investment". It would be nice to see some graphs and charts comparing past "investments" per student with the increased "profit" over the last 40 years.

Shelley, here's what I want the district to include in any proposals on the ballot this fall. I assume they will have made the decision about how much to ask for in advance of the state budget being completed. Will the district actually offer to levy less money than approved by the voters (I'm not sure this has ever happened, but they do have the power to levy less than what is approved by the voters) if the governor and legislature actually comes through with more money for education? My fear is the district will cry poverty for the next eight months while trying to gain support based on a pessimistic outlook presented by Mr. Queener and then if/when they pass an operating levy will have more money than they know what to do with. I will happily support a reasonably levy request(s) as I have in the past, but this district has proven it cannot be honest with the numbers. Remember the previous efforts when the actual budge deficit was less than than half of the estimated deficit presented by the district? I know it's not an exact science, but there can be no doubt the district was being intentional deceitful.

How does admitting that St. Croix Prep produces identical test scores (they are virtually the same, minus the fact that St. Croix Prep does not deal with any significant special ed cases to bring the averages down) not mean that its very existence is nothing more than a duplication of services? How much money would be saved if the taxpayers didn't foot the bill for a $20 million school, transportation, heat, lights additional administration etc. The only thing the district can learn from that school is how not to operate. I certainly have some issues with District 834, but there is little to complain about if your comparable is St. Croix Prep. We're not talking about a second language charter or one that is even doing anything unique (which is what charters were set up for to begin with) so there is no reason for that school to exist. I certainly don't appreciate the way they have irresponsibly spent tax dollars to provide the status quo.

It's money that could be better utilized by District 834. Clearly you're drunk on the kool-aid, but how can you support an organization that has been proven time and again to be deceitful and corrupt at worst and unintentionally reckless with taxpayer dollars at best. How can the nepotism not bother you. Have you looked at the salaries Mr. Gutierrez and his wife are pulling down, not to mention the extravagant bonuses they give themselves thanks to their hand-picked, but not voted on, school board? What kind of bonuses are the giving themselves and Carol Davis-Johnson for this expansion they're working on? Why are they making above average salaries for a school this size yet the teachers are not? You're right, that school is not for anyone with a conscience.

Troll alert.

Feel free to point out any inaccuracies rather than just calling names, Steve. I looking forward to learning things every day, unlike the tunnel vision SCPA supporters who don't seem to mind unsavory behavior (practically bordering on what is essentially embezzlement of our tax dollars) by the administration.

Steve, is $135,000 empirical data? That is the money the SCPA leadership awarded themselves for performing duties they were already being paid to perform. In the case of one woman who received a $100,000 bonus for something that she was woefully unqualified to perform (he education was a divinity degree) and was unnecessary in the first place. I guess we'll find out whether they can truly justify those bonuses if they go ahead and dole out more of them following the completion of the expansion project.