Common sense would dictate that the only real outcome to expect from this badly needed new ordinance is that the police will not be bothered, unruly patrons will take their fights into the street, those in need of medical attention will be sent on their way unaided, and the intensity of the fights will increase because the police are not their to deescalate the situation. Pure genius. What's worse the problem or the solution?

There are at least 10 assaults per year at my daughter's school so I demand to know why the city isn't cracking down on those scofflaws? To help me understand just how these local businesses will be impacted, can someone please explain which business would have been "credited" for the incident where council member Jim Roush's son got drunk and started destroying property downtown? Is it the bar that had fired him from his job or the one that over served him? Is there any language that protects a bar in situations where an already drunk patron is dropped off at or walks into an establishment and they have to call the police, even though they never served him or her? When Jerry Kill has a seizure after two beers at the Freight House and the authorities are called is this a strike against that establishment? It is ridiculous to consider an establishment that produces less than one call to the police per month as such a problem that requires such a heavy hand from the city. I could support an ordinance cracking down on places with 10 calls per month, but 10 per year is absurd.

It seems logical that if the city council is willing to put a cease and desist on all new (large) upcoming events until the new council is installed, they would extend the same courtesy in regards to ordinance shifts.

Randy makes good points. There are laws in effect that take care of this. Bouncers used to take care of this. Now the threat of a lawsuit (against bouncers) effectively stops them from doing their job. People are responsible for their actions not businesses. Stupid ordinance.

Maddening.

Funny, It's actually my understanding the the chief is actually the one not willing to work with anyone in town, but prefers bullying local businesses instead. Just read his quote of this being "pretty draconian'. Wow! Way to make it look like you're out to get people instead of helping. Maybe try reaching out to them instead of making it your new quest to shut businesses down for things that are out of their control! I've seen fights break out at bars before anyone has even ordered a drink at that bar. It'd be pretty cool to loose your business over something like that! All these people will just be shoved out into the streets now. Way to go Stillwater! Just another reason that Hudson is growing as Stillwater slowly fades away...

What might they do to 'curb' these problems? I've heard a few great ideas, such as let have a BAC test at every door to make sure that people aren't drunk or maybe have a lie detector test to make sure that patrons have pure intentions. I was thinks that we should just change the drinking age to 31, that would solve almost all of our towns problems! It's a fact, most of these problems come from people in their 20's, so maybe the downtown bars should stop catering to them and everyone can be just like the dock cafe, is that your answer? I know they don't have any problems. Or maybe everyone should just close 9pm?
I'm not trying to attack you, just giving you another perspective on things. These aren't 'problem' places, but sometimes unfortunate things happen when you mix kids in there 20's and booze.

You're missing the point, huge! The bars don't cater to the younger patrons! They are of the 50+ crowd! No kidding they don't have any problems. And I hate to break it to ya but there's more than just one or two spots of "issue'. It's public record, go look into it. i think that you'd be surprised at how much you don't know and how the media warped us into this frenzy! Two thirds of the calls are relays to bayport and washington county. Must of the rest of the calls are a joke on top of it. Someone called the cops for a loose cat at one place. Sucks to be them! A few more calls and no liquor license, all because of a stupid cat! Most places only have a few 'real' calls a year! Check it out for yourself, don't just believe channel 5. They do it for the ratings, not for or community.

All the bars in question have plenty of bouncers. That be said, they can't help if someone falls down the stairs or some ass attacks someone with no warning. Stillwater I actually safer than it ever has been, ever! Bad things use to happen more often but with less coverage so nobody ever cared. The Habor isn't on of these "problem bars"(what a joke) but years ago some dude got stabbed up there. I bet you never heard about that one! I bet no one blamed them for that and not should they have. It was out of there controll and that's just the case sometimes. Sorry

I straight up said that I wasn't trying to attack you, just help you to see a different point of view. I just saw a great post where they said that "this is like blaming NASA for a meteor strike". And I never presumed what you do and don't know, just making a point of it so settle down. And it is more that one block all of which just lost the #911. And yes, I know what Stillwater is made up of. I rarely go to the bars myself, I just don't want to lose some of my favorite restaurants because of something that is out of there controll. Not to mention that they pay taxes too, way more that you(I think) or I do. Does that not count for anything? If you were opening a restaurant would you want to open in Stillwater now? I sure wouldn't and I love it here! We need business here, not to scare it away! I wish that I could make all the bad things go away but I can't! Even at Stillwaters worst we are better than many towns. Now these businesses will pay the price.
So settle down, I'm only giving my point of view and asking you for some solutions that won't close our stores. I think we're on the same side here, I'm just more of a realist(not meant as an insult).

A bouncer can legally only lay a hand on a patron in a self defense situation. Everytime a bouncer physically removes a patron they open themselves up to criminal and civil prosecution for assault. Traditionally bouncers have not had to worry about this as they could rely on their relationship with law enforcement to shield them from these problems but times are changing. If a bar owner has a bad relationship with the local PD (as has been the the case in a couple Stillwater locations) the bouncers are stuck in the middle.

Right on Scott, your totally right! Extra sucks when the local PD is in willing to help out without severe consequences. It sucks for the bouncers, bartenders and everyone else's jobs. It's hard to get along with the cops when they refuse to let you try. And without the cops willing to work them the bouncers can't do their jobs, and why would you hire more bouncers then. Totally a double edged sword. Unfortunate

Really quick, Susan is right on her idea about Shawn checking his facts. He has never personally written something without checking all the truths into it, he has posted things that others have said or written without checking their facts and hasn't corrected them. This doesn't make him wrong, I'm sure that Shawn has checked into all of his "ordinance breaking" facts, just ask him. I'm sure he'll tell you. He's a man of integrity and stays very neutral. That being said, major news sources don't give a rats ass about the total truth or integrity. That's why they ALWAYS have a small apology section in the paper. That's where they admit their wrong, but it's not big ratings anymore so it no longer matters.

Here is the low down, you look at the "problem" bars in down town and you will notice that they are generally significantly higher volume than the other less "problem" bars. More people more problems. I don't think its hard to understand when you have a place like freight or rafters or Brines that can have a couple hundred people in their bars at any given time are going to have more calls than the smaller bars or less busy bars like whiteys, no necks, mad Capper etc. in reality a law like this is only punishing a bar for being busy. Of you really want to be fair it should be on a per capita basis for amount of calls or what ever constituting a problem. Lets say Chicago and stillwater have 10 murders in a year, is Chicago's crime problem comparably bad as stillwater's? No.... 10 murders per how ever many millions compared to 10 per 20k... Not the greatest analogy but you get the idea...

Apparently, if you have a differing opinion, you are gullible, know nothing and need to "settle down" How unfortunate for the comment section that this is what it has come to...

I turn around for one second and all hell breaks loose. I'm hoping Susan or Shawn or somebody can dig up the number of police calls so we can all understand how or why some seem to think this is such a big problem facing this city. I just have a sneaking suspicion that the amount of calls and problems have been overstated, otherwise why are they not being made readily available?

The tradjedy of Adams death was obviously the main impetus behind this as many try to get their minds around how this could have happened. Being a bouncer is not as portrayed in "Roadhouse", fights can break out over anything; an accidental bump, a splilled drink, words, flirting, or in some cases just looking at someone in a way they percieve as wrong and usually they are well under way before a bouncer gets involved. From what I understand, the confrontations that led up to the fight involving Adam, even if the bouncers were aware of, never rose to the level that anyone would have been ejected from the bar, seperated yes but not removed in other words it probably would'nt have been prevented regardless of what bouncers may have been present.
It's obvious to anyone that there are different styles of bars in town, The Mad Kapper is not the same type of location as Smalley's and they will each have a different amount of calls based on that alone. I do understand the issue from the PD's standpoint I just stronly disagree with the arbitrary number of ten being applied to all locations across the board but there has to be a baseline in law for them to have any power at all to deal with inept ownership. The simple fact is that the management of a bar that does'nt police itself will not last for long anyway ie..Pub Monique, when the new pub opens in that space in February I am sure this won't be an issue for them.

@Scott, right again!

@randy, what are you talking about? You're the master of stirring the pot and that's why I always love your posts. Even when I disagree

@susan, not sure, was that a shot at me? I tried to make it clear that I mostly agree with you, but that you just needed more of the facts. I was trying to extend an olive branch, not be a dick

And for the record, I love the comment section!!we don't all have to get along for it to be fantastic!!!

I also love the comment section of Patch but implying people are clueless, stupid, or telling them to calm/settle down (repeatedly) is insulting...no matter how many times you write "this is not an insult".

I am the first one here to call out our city leaders when it is due but I try very hard to be courteous to the other commenters...however, I will give what I get. Instead of reading insults directed at me over and over and replying the same way - which is a huge waste of time, I decided to bow out of this one.

BTW, if you have to write "this is not an insult"....it's probably an insult.

I never once implied that you were stupid or clueless, I was simply providing you with more info. You were in fact that the one that started with the insults. Yes I did say to settle down(kind of dickish I admit) but you were blowing things out of proportion. The reason I said that something wasn't meant as an insult was because it wasn't. Things can easily be misconstrued in text so I was trying to avoid that. Even when I try to be nice you come back at me being rude again. So please except my apology, even though I never outwardly acused you of anything, it aw just read into a little to much. Or is this just me being gulable and not knowing anything again?

I just try to run a place that has good food and is good for my community. At night we sometimes have parties and bands to have fun and drive in business. Sometimes unfortunate things will happen. One time one of the worst things happened and I lost a friend.
That being said, one time a girl got beat up outside of Monique's. She then walked down to our place because she felt safe there. My bartender then drove her to the hospital and called the police on her behalf. As it turns out that was on of the felony's counted against us and with the relays it was counted a 3 calls. All that for being good people and doing our civil duty that most would just ignore. There are more instances like this and i could gobon and on But thanks to the news for making it look like we're running a fight club!!! You know what they say, "no good deed ever goes unpunished"!

I don't really like extra attention. I was kind of hoping that someone else would jump on it. I want to work with the police to work on things. I don't want them thinking that I'm trying to undermine them with the public. By the way, never trust anything you see one news ever again. It's just full of half truths, they don't care who gets crushed in the process. Last time they even set up a bunch of props to make us look bad. I trust the Patch and the Gazette also told the truth without mixing our words and editing some out to make us look bad. Others did this to us. Makes it hard not to hate, let alone trust anyone. I lost a friend and some tried to make it look like that's what we set out to do! Sorry for the rant, but I'm just really unset about everything still.

Not a shot at you...forever now! I've just seen the garbage

Shawn Hogendorf, any chance you can do some digging on how many calls Stillwater bars and restaurants produced in the past year and whether this truly is much ado about nothing? I have a hard time believing the statistics aren't readily available, although perhaps I am far too trusting as to assume some of these council members actually did some research before bending over for Adam's uncle and his well meaning but misguided supporters.

Their website wasn't bad at all, even though it didn't tell the whole story. Their show that night slaughtered us and so did the pioneer press. They made it more about us and didn't really even seem to care about Adam and that made me sick. They all made a HUGE deal about 40 calls when it wa really more like 4 or 5. This is the same for everyone in town. Sad really, even more sad that they didn't really even care about the tragedy just more about dragging us through the mud. Now everyone pays the price. Hopefully everything will work out for the best.

Go to City Hall and request them. It's public record, they should just make you copies. Be sure to notice all the relay calls. You'll see how they were used the misconstrue the truth and made to look like Stillwater is a war zone!

When this ordinance was first introduced, I asked the police chief for copies of the police calls to downtown bars. Because the request was in regard to the amendment, and most police calls are generated during the summer months, I asked for the reports of the places police respond to the most from May through September.
I received the police calls for Smalley's, the Freight House, Whitey's, The Water Street Inn, Brine's, Rafters and P.D. Pappy's. (Monique's was already closed.) I have attached all of them as PDFs to this article.
As Smalley mentions above, when looking at these reports, one call may generate the response of several departments, all of which are included in the report. The best way to sort through that is looking at the ICR (incident) number on the left side of the page.
I think it is important to note that the amendment changed from 6 calls to 10 violations. I think that is going to be a pretty significant change. I did leave a message for the city attorney today asking for the number of violations his office has generated from downtown bars. I haven't heard back yet.
I'm in the process of uploading them now, unfortunately the uploads are taking a while...

I'd like to know who deems what counts as a violation and will it be the same for everyone. If its just one person such a the chief then it's a total joke! I've got someone on the inside who says that some bars will be able to slide without a problem while others will be getting drilled with every little thing that happen(like the loose cat). It only goes to show how justice isn't being done and if you just "slob a little knob" your indiscressions will be over looked. Terrible

Anyone want to bet that Dickie Anderson won't have to worry about this ordinance?

So which is the one bar in particular that Barney Fife (Gannaway) is so gung-ho to shut down? Also, will this ordinance allow the city to shut down bike racks and water towers as necessary. I think we all know that's where most of the fights occur.

First off I think its very disrespectful calling this dude Barney Five. Barney actually cared about the people and his community. You ever met this guy? I've never met someone so arrogant and full of themselves. He doesn't care about Stillwater, the worse we do the better his own town does. The word on the street is that even the police don't like or respect him, all due to his attitude with the common man(not Dan Cole). It'd be nice I'd our new council would pressure him to adjust his attitude toward the public or even consider replacing him. I've never heard of one person that supports his attitude in this town. Even ex mayors and ex chiefs are starting to emerge in discussest.

Randy wrote: "First of all, I have a hard time believing the former mayor would frequent a bar or drinking establishment downtown."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I miss the old bar hopping, Harley riding, gun shooting mayor that we use to have! He actually did care about everyone and the entire town!

I'm sure that you could find the new mayor up at Applebee's, busy "eatin good in the neighborhood"!

I wish that he'd come and see me. Maybe his family's been in, I don't know. I do wish that that he's come and talk to me about everything that's been going on in town. I know that he's busy, i get it. But this has been HUGE lately and not so much as a "how's it going". Maybe I should reach out? But you know what? I do a ton of reaching out all over the community and give all over, maybe I want someone to care about me for a change(btw thanks to everyone who has) It'd be nice to know that that the most powerful man in town cares about the biggest issue we've had in a while.
I want a safe town(it is) and I just want things to continue to get better. But I think that individually talking with STIlLWATER restaurant owners would be a great place to start. Hell he's even welcome to my house for dinner to talk about things! Anyone else want to come over for dinner??

Sorry for writing in code. It's been a very long day and pirates are notorious for poor grammar, reading, spelling and foul language(but I think I kept that one in check)

Ha! I bet said that just before he got the noose! Odd how that almost exactly translates to this, but if you want to give me the noose you'll be talking to the business end of my cutlass first!