Residents React to Impacts on Stillwater Schools if Levy Fails: 'This List Stinks'
Stillwater Area School District officials told concerned residents this week if the $11 million levy is not renewed in November, budget cuts will hit the classroom.
It may be an off-year election, but there’s going to be a lot at stake for Stillwater schools when voters head to the polls this November.
An operating levy that provides $11 million to Stillwater area schools each year expires in 2014.
That — coupled with $22 million in cuts over the past 12 years and an expected $4-6 million shortfall as a result of flat state funding and rising costs — means the school district stands to lose nearly 20 percent of its annual revenue.
When that happens, budget cuts hit the classroom — and that was the greatest concern expressed by about 100 parents who attended two Town Hall meetings this week at the district's junior high schools.
In three words one resident summed up what many attending the meetings were thinking: “This list stinks.”
“In the past we’ve tried very, very hard to keep cuts away from students, but with an $11 million levy expiring there just isn’t enough to cut in other areas,” Community Engagement Coordinator Carissa Keister told the School Board on Thursday night.
Class sizes, student programming and learning interventions were clearly the biggest concerns for those attending the town hall meetings.
Residents questioned what losing music programs, all-day kindergarten and elective courses would mean for the district —and expressed concern that cuts to learning interventions would create bigger gaps between successful learners and those who are struggling.
Other talkers were the possibility of a four-day school week, general safety if school resource officers or security contracts are cut, transportation and ability to retain quality staff members in the midst of budget cuts.
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“As residents learned more about the new strategic plan, there was a lot of excitement about it, but concern that we may not be able to actually implement our plan fully if we don’t have the resources,” Keister said.
Residents told school officials they should continue to increase efficiencies across the district and evaluate employee compensation and benefits.
Community members also suggested the district increase its grant writing, utilize volunteers to help in the classroom, sell ad space on school resources and reduce the number of extra-curricular offerings at the high school.
Residents also encouraged the district to look at enrollment numbers, and depending on what is found, consider restructuring or closing a school.
Discussions about charging a fee for all-day kindergarten were prevalent, as were concerns about how the district communicates information to the public.
The school district has a lot of work to do, Superintendent Corey Lunn said. It will be important to get information out to voters, so people know the issues and understand what is at stake for Stillwater schools.
A scientific survey will be sent out to about 500 district residents in the coming weeks to give the School Board an idea of what the community may be willing to support before drafting the questions for a levy request.
The School Board will meet for an all-day workshop on March 2 (open to the public) and will approve a list of potential cuts if the levy isn’t renewed during their March 7 meeting.
A levy decision will be made by the Board on April 11.
“Last time we did this, we did not have the list of reductions. We didn’t have an idea if we were going to ask for more money, and what we were trying to do. We were trying to do this in July—and we came within one percent," Lunn said. "By the way, only 40 percent of our parents voted.
“Now, we’ve got this," he continued. You know what there is to lose, and how your money was invested. We’re going to tell you how we’re going to grow, and we’re starting in April, so we have time to our community’s parents about what we value in our schools.”
Irving
8:27 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Were salary and benefit cuts for staff discussed at the meeting?
Shawn Hogendorf
8:51 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Yes, but not in detail. Residents told school officials they should continue to increase efficiencies across the district and evaluate employee compensation and benefits.
tax payer
9:19 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Lunn said. "By the way, only 40 percent of our parents voted". I guess I am confused and a bit suspicious.... How would Mr. Lunn know how many parents voted, and more importantly, how they voted. Or, is there an expectation that if you have a child in school that you would be "drinking the Kool Aid" and know that without the levy your children would be inferior beings.....
Shawn Hogendorf
9:25 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Voter records are public information. The district cross referenced their list of parents with the list of voters in the district. However, although voter records are public, how a person vote is not, so the district doesn't know how parents voted, just that less than 40 percent did vote.
Sr.
9:19 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Shawn - exactly what portion do employees pay for healthcare? I've asked the question before and never receive an answer. Its public information but its never published.
Shawn Hogendorf
9:27 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
It wasn't mentioned in the meetings I went to. I'll ask.
H
9:48 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
My husband's group was the one to say "this list stinks" and it does. They are using scare tactics instead of a positive promotion of what the $11 mil will give us. And it's truly a $15-17mil short fall. Where are they making up the $4-6 they already lost. It was a good meeting but one that doesn't show staff helping save our schools just the children suffering. They are nickle and diming the students where the bulk of the costs lies in healthcare and top leaders salaries. We've dealt with salary freezing and cuts so that others can keep their jobs in the corporate world while the big wigs keep their bonuses.
What we don't truly understand is how the school can promote what they want to move towards and the Stillwater SD will be in the forefront even though we may have these cuts. There is no parity between schools. Lake Elmo is bursting at the seams. LE fronts the majority of special needs and ESL children but gets no more assistance. It seems like Stillwater needs to take an overall look at the district in general. Sad times are ahead indeed.
tax payer
9:55 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
@ Shawn - Thanks. I did not know that. Wow, talk about the opportunity for intimidation. I can see Lunn pulling the children and the parents in to the principles office. That actually scares me. And we all thought the playground bully was bad.
Sr.
10:13 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Another item to ponder. The SD wants to put there own minute clinic at the high school to save money. Do you really think that teachers/staff at Withrow or Lakeland are going to drive all the way to the high school when they have clinics/minutes clinics much closer? It just seems like a waste of taxpayer dollars.
Shawn Hogendorf
10:17 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Thanks, Sr. Here's the question I posed to the district: What portion do employees pay for healthcare, and how does the district's new insurance plan and clinic at SAHS play into this cost moving forward? I'll post the response when I hear back.
Shawn Hogendorf
3:29 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Here's the response to my question from Cathy Moen, Human Resources Director:
"Currently, the employee contribution toward health insurance varies by employee group. Single insurance is fully paid for all full time employees. The employee contribution toward family insurance ranges from 0% to 22%, depending on the group.
As far as the self insurance, we saved $700,000 in taxes and assessment by moving to self-insured and we are able to directly impact our insurance renewals by reducing/impacting claims.
That is where the tie to the clinic comes in, in that if we are paying direct medical costs, with no intermediate commercial up-charges, we expect to see a decrease in medical claims through our clinic, allowing us to keep our insurance premiums lower, costing the taxpayers less and allowing us to direct those resources other places. We expect to see nearly $300,000 in reduced claims costs as a result of the onsite clinic. In addition, by controlling our premiums, employees pay less and the cost for insurance when it comes time for negotiations is reduced as well.
The other area we hope to see some savings in is reduced absenteeism, keeping teachers in the classroom more, and decreased sub costs as a result."
Randy Marsh
10:42 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Here's what bothers me about all of this, and I fully support, at a bare minimum, renewing the existing levy. Remember the last time the district came begging to the voters and they wanted money for air conditioning, ventilation system and an expansion at the high school to accommodate STEM, technology etc. Are these still needs for the district, because it seems like they have enough space if they decide to take up some space with a clinic, for starters. Also, if these things were so important (enough so that asking for them likely cost the district its operating levy request) then why have they gone away. Either the district needed these things they were asking for or they were just wish list extras and not really necessary. It can't be both.
CC
11:06 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
There are definetely a lot of questions and concerns regarding a proposed levy. My hope is that we all can work together for the common good of our community, and most importantly, our children. Our state and federal government can't seem to get anything accomplished because they are split into to parties that have forgotten how to compromise and work together for the people they serve. Both parties have some good ideas, but no party has all the right answers.
In Stillwater, Let's put politics aside, and work together(not I'm right and your wrong) to reach common sense goals and spending for our district. We have the opportunity,now, to make positive decisions for the future of our schools and community as a whole.
tax payer
11:21 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
A voice of reason..... Lets just accompish those goals inside the budget. It is possible. "Just because you can, doesnt mean you should".
tax payer
11:18 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
As I recall the Minute Clinic is located right in the school, and is for the staff and their families. (not the students) I believe I read that it was provided FREE, with zero deductable or co pays - My family co-pays just doubled Jan 1st.
On a different note it seems that the district wants to feed both ends of technology. Get rid of the Administrative office building. Put the Administrators in the schools where they have daily contact with the students and teachers. As I stated earlier - get rid of the libraries - there is not a student that knows what the dewey deciimal system is - they call it Google. Think out of the box and foreward. There is plenty of money - its just wasted......
Randy Marsh
11:22 am on Friday, February 22, 2013
Here's a litmus test for the school district that I doubt they will pass. Has anyone with the district even acknowledged the anticipated money from the school funding shift that will likely result in the district receiving the money they were promised but did not receive from the state the past year or two? There appears to be genuine support from the legislature to get that money distributed, but has the district ever brought this up or is it just throwing out only the worst case scenario to frighten people without acknowledging any of the other what-ifs? If Dayton gets his way, the district will undoubtedly have more money rolling in. It's not enough to fill an $11 million gap, but I just want to see some transparency and honest from the district. They sure talk about it an awful lot, maybe one day they'll actually follow through on that.
Shawn Hogendorf
12:20 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I heard this mentioned during a cost center meeting at Lily Lake a couple of weeks ago, Randy. I'm going off of memory here, but I remember a school board member saying the money isn't guaranteed, and a decision about how much to ask for in the levy would have to be made (legally-speaking), before the district knows the outcome of the state's school funding shift.
Randy Marsh
3:06 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Once again, I believe they are conveniently leaving out some important details Shawn, at least as I understand them. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny whether this is accurate, but I believe passing a levy gives the school district the power to levy up to that amount and no more. Now I understand you have to plan for no increase, but I believe even if the citizens approve a levy request that it does not mean the district (the board in this case) has to levy that entire amount, though I'm sure in the history of mankind a school district has never had the conscience to follow through on this. I believe it's similar to when the city or county sets a preliminary budget it cannot exceed that amount with the final budget, but can actually levy less if it desires. I want to make sure the district has what it needs, but not more.
tax payer
2:22 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I know a number of school teachers. They tell me the Stillwater School district is the "Holy Grail". The "Taj Mahal" They lack for nothing and get everything. Other districts do alot of sharing of this and that, including teachers. Not Stillwater - The teachers are lined up transfer into this district... (their words not mine) .
While I am obsessing about the levy. I know when I vote (I guess Lunn would know if I did or didnt) - Many times I have parked next to a big SUV or expensive car with a Tea Party sticker on the bumper... These are the same people that have no problem with voting for a levy, cuz they dont really call it a tax. The same people that invented a new word called "Entitlements" - like Social Security or Medicare. But a levy, well thats using other peoples money to help them out - thats different. Do the math folks....As important as a good school is - when you go to buy or sell your house - one of the first things ya want to know - is how much are the taxes...
Lake Elmo Mom
3:06 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Now, the teacher bashing starts. Please know what you are talking about. First, you need to compare starting salaries rather than average salaries because our school district does employ many teachers who have masters degrees and also have been teaching many years. Next, visit the schools and classrooms. Sit in a classroom and observe. How many pupils are in the classroom, does everyone have a chair, how many special education students are in that classroom etc. Shadow a teacher. What time do they start work? Do they eat lunch at their desks as they grade and prepare? Do they have extra responsibilities before and after school that are not part of their teaching contract. What time do they go home? How many hours do they spend at home to prepare for their next teaching day? What you will find is that in no way is a teaching job with Stillwater Schools "the Taj Mahal". All teachers in our school district work hard and long teaching/counseling/nurturing our children.
Randy Marsh
3:14 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Couple of things, first tax payer, I don't know one person who doesn't consider a levy a tax so I guess we don't share the same friends. Now, Lake Elmo Mom, you seem to want to ignore the fact that those same well compensated teachers work about 190 days per year. Also, who cares about starting salaries when everyone knows this district doesn't hire teachers without experience and/or advanced degrees. A better gauge is average salary and in that category Stillwater clearly outperforms the vast majority of high performing districts in the state, even though our test scores lag behind many of those same schools that we are outspending with regard to teacher salaries. Teacher salaries are public information and hopefully you'll look into it and realize that Stillwater has virtually nobody making the starting salary you want to use as the starting point for this discussion. You might also do some research on how much those advanced degrees actually result in better learning by the students (here's a clue, it's not a good bang for our buck).
Marc Pentland
3:28 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Once again, when needing to revamp the levy issue people cry about what teachers make and their benefits, once again you hear the cries of "they only work 9 months a year!" once again teachers are attacked for what they do, and what they make, and how long they work. Instead of attacking teachers because your jealous of their work schedule, pay and benefits, we should focus on what’s best for our school system and yes, that would mean YOUR kids, YOUR kids who these teachers who don't really work, deserve decent benefits or pay and just waste your money, spend all day with 5 days a week, while continuing their education, while going to extracurricular events (I see lots of teachers at their kids sporting programs, at community dinners for the benefits of the school system as well as having kids and parents call them all hours of the day and night to ask questions, does your job call you on a Saturday night? The technology level the schools have is suffering greatly, seen Lily Lakes tech center (or whatever they call it) lately? Those computers were outdated, as well as the programs that run them, more than a few years ago, so what you say? Consider this, computer skills, working with various programs as well as knowing other technology pieces are must haves for college and really, know a business or profession that doesn't use tech and computers, no? Didn’t think so.
Marc Pentland
3:29 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I have heard the "Stillwater schools is the Taj Mahal of districts where everyone makes upwards of 70K a year" you might want to look up what starting salary is for a new teacher with at least (because this is the minimal level education to be a teacher) a Bachelors degree, it is NOT 70K it is far less than what one would make starting out with that education level in the private sector. Now I understand people are jealous and upset that teachers make decent money and have good benefits and well darn it, they should be making Burger King Wages and eating canned dog food right? oh and driving far less decent cars not less than 8 years old, would that make you feel better? Most people have no clue what teachers really do, which is the interesting part, YOU spend all day every day with 30 plus kids instead of your office cube for a year and then tell me again how easy and breezy it is.
Randy Marsh
3:33 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Mark, why would you ever use starting teacher salary for the purposes of comparison when no Stillwater teachers fall into that category? Quit trying to spin the numbers, you are asking the district to be straight forward with answers while at the same time spinning the numbers to suit your own bias. Look in the mirror, sir.
Marc Pentland
3:29 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I too think there needs to be some revamping of how the system operates, that whole thing about what money can come from what fund and you can’t touch this fund to use for that purpose is infuriating and serves only to turn people off. But what our system here really lacks is the ability to connect with the community without bars and graphs, tables and scare tactics and dull boring hour’s long discussions about fiscal projections and all the crap that no one understands or cares about. They need to get out of the office, go door to door, speak to people, notice I said "speak" not preach and educate them, most people want to know two things, how much will this cost me and what do we get in return, ANSWER those questions, that all the people care about, not the dry, dull economics lessons just this 1. What will it cost me 2. What do we get, simple? But STOP attacking teachers, good lord they teach your kids!!!!!!!!!!! T
Marc Pentland
3:29 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Tax Payers comment, they want and lack for nothing, please, this sounds like one of the afore mentioned disgruntled people angry because they have to work during the summer. Teachers in this, like every other district, negotiate their contracts, for years and years they have voted to keep their benefits at a doable level instead of other things. They pay into their retirement, pay family coverage for medical etc so that whole "they want for nothing" is so far from accurate I shouldn't have even commented on it. Want to see firsthand go to one of the classrooms at lily lake that probably the size of your bath room at home and see how packed in there they are. Now things need to be thought about, discussed, revamped and the best possible use for tax payer money needs to put forth. There are places to 'trim" and I have even said that numerous times, I am not excited about paying more in taxes, I am
Marc Pentland
3:32 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
not excited about having to work harder, but consider this, you have a voice and a say at the moment about how tax money gets used to help support our community den our schools, and study after study shows that good education as well as family involvement in the educational process (which could be much better) reduces the chances of delinquency and crime, NOW when the state decides to build a new prison, new jail, new correctional program consider this, they DON"T ask you what you think, you have no say, if you don't like your tax money being used for that purpose tough! you have the voice now, your voice does not matter then, it’s simple to me, invest now in our kids, decent schools, technology and keeping the best teachers in our system (you know the old, you get what you pay for, that does apply here) invest now with your vote and your voice, because when they need to build a new OPH or Stillwater no one is going to care what you think or ask for your input, clear choice to me. I have no children in this school system, I never have either! And I support our educational system, our teachers and YOUR kids.
tax payer
3:51 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I suspect that you have had opportunity most of us have not. You allege no specific allegiance to the schools, but yet have alot of inside information, not available to most.... Some how me thinks tho doth protest too much.... I think you may benefit from these levy monies - just sayin;. If I am wrong - I apologize.
tax payer
3:34 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
@ Lake Elmo Mom - You state - "Next, visit the schools and classrooms. Sit in a classroom and observe". - Please let me know when I can start walking the halls of Stillwater High School, let alone sit in a classroom of a school of which I (help) pay for. That place is more security than a prison - right down to a gated entrance...And just wait till the levy vote comes up - It will be a sea of signs (paid for by the district) reminding the students to make sure Mom and Dad vote to approve the levy. Talk about brain washing......
Paul Whackernutz
3:59 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Stillwater and Sowashco both should eliminate any position with the title "coordinator" in it. "Community Engagement Coordinator"? Give me a break!
Marc Pentland
5:10 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Randy Marsh really?? no teachers in the district are beginning teachers, where oh where do you get that from?? all teachers in this district aren't beginners? beg to differ with you but uhhh yeah there are and since the general gripe is what teachers and how they shouldn't make decent salaries, makes me wonder, do you have an education? did you go to school for 8 years plus? do tax payers get to complain about what you make and what your benefits are? for the record I work in the correctional system with juveniles (worked with adults in the past) and I am telling you, stop whining about others who make more money than you because they invested in themselves and their educations and focus on the real issues.
tax payer
5:46 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
As stated earlier - Seasoned teachers are lining up to transfer to District 834 - Its the Holy Grail - Plus in your rhetoric you claim the teachers do alot - I am not against teachers and they do... To that end - all the extras are not free - they get paid for it - and lets not even go into the coaches salary - totally out of control.
Randy Marsh
7:01 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Tax payer, I'd be surprised if the coaches make minimum wage (the current minimum wage) so you're barking up the wrong tree there.
Randy Marsh
7:02 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Look at the link Susan provided, Marc, and tell me how many teachers with no prior experience work in this district. Only one of us is speaking out of ignorance and it is not me.
Marc Pentland
5:11 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
When you were a kid Randy, did you know that teachers did not work in the summer? Were you excited to have summers off? Would have liked to have gone to school year round? do your kids want to do that? Then STOP whining! if you didn't want to work summers ya know what? you should have become I dunno, let’s see, what could you have become, oh I know a TEACHER! do I benefit from the levy dollars, HELLO pudding head I live in Stillwater and own a home here so guess where the levy dollars come from genius MY POCKET as well as yours, maybe even more so. If you don't want your kids to learn anything other than counting toes and sniffing glue and how to do the most basic job, then don't support the schools, and continue to whine about teachers and how good they have it.
tax payer
5:47 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
By the way - I am the pudding head.... Not Randy
Randy Marsh
7:06 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I don't want to see year-round school, but I'm not quite sure why teachers should draw a full time salary for working 190 days per year. Also, you seem to think I'm against strong schools, quite the contrary, I just want the best bang for our buck and higher teacher salaries do not translate to more learning. You also seem to ignore that the teachers in this district are not dealing with many of the problems that are much more common in lower income areas with students who are far less motivated. Do me a favor and get informed.
Marc Pentland
5:11 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
I will agree with Paul, there are some positions that need to be looked at, the job, and I am not sure of the title, that is a speaker for the district or media contact person whatever, is lame. Also having a teacher serve as the library person and reads a few stories to kids is a monumental waste...I never said we don't have areas to look at and waste, but technology and having good teachers as well as some activities is not part of that. Art is the ONLY thing that kept me in school................Unity school district in Balsam Lake Wis has a unique system, they have one massive school, which means one building that isn't 500 years old and falling down, maybe that’s an area to look at? also losing the elitist attitude of the Rutherford school (and the liberty elite) might be an area to look at as well.
Common Sense
2:36 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Mr. Pentland should perhaps tread carefully as a "safe" (and seemingly reckless) mouthpiece for his spouse, a long time teacher in District 834, who has everything to gain by maintaining the "status quo". Taxpayers have the right to get information and to expect District leadership to look at all avenues for leaning out bloated, weak, or outdated practices, facilities, staffing and staffing leave policies in a short work year, and to deliver a quality education for students within the District's means.
Lake elmo mom
5:13 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Have you gone to the high school and asked to visit a classroom? Have you called and talked to anyone about how to visit classrooms? If you haven't done that, then you have nothing to complain about. Schools have systems in place to keep our children safe, but if you truly want to visit classrooms there are appropriate ways to do so!
tax payer
5:49 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Been there done that - Its a closed community - Like I said, its only for the rich and famous....
Marc Pentland
6:25 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
yes you can go to schools visit class rooms and even volunteer!!! no way!! do somehting for the betterment and support of the system OH MY GOD! whats the world coming too. and keeping our kdis safe, should be the focal point in this world
Irving
11:44 am on Monday, February 25, 2013
Lake elmo mom - working hard isn't really the issue. Are you willing to visit all of our work places and then assign some relative wage to each of us? I had a teacher as a roommate for several years, and she left later for her job than I did and came home long before I came home from my job, and she had her summers off. That sort of flexibility has a lot of value, and you aren't going to find any job like that that pays as well in the private sector.
Many, many of us in the private sector have taken pay cuts, and nearly all of us have taken benefit cuts during this recession - is it too much to ask that our public servants do the same?
Marc Pentland
6:29 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
People have a choice, if you think that the bottom line of our school system is to simply supply the etachers and staff with high paying jobs and benefits and that even though they have advanced educations, don't deserve to make more than the drive thru window girl at Taco Bell then don't support a levy, but then don't complain and blame the schools when your kid cannot compete because they did not get the quality education they needed. Also instea dof blaming teachers and schools for your kids, take the responsability to work with them at home, or at least show up for confrences for Gods sake. Teachers are with your kids a few hours each day, you have them full time, you had kids take some responsability for helping them achieve academic sucess, stop making excuses for why they couldn't compelte home work, they had book club, swimming lessons, tennis, they had to go to aunt Edna's 90th birthday etc etc, sit down with your kids and help the system help them. It takes a village is not just a witty statement.
North Hill Dude
11:12 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
@ Susan, Thanks for the school salaries link, It's a real eye opener. Your funny, don't let your party know how you feel your character would be attacked ;-)
Some taxpayers get wound up over district salaries and bennies because they make up $0.77 of every dollar spent in district 834, WOW! IT IS the elephant in the room! I asked if district employees paid any of their own bennies and got the run around at the last meeting. Why isn't that on the table??? Because they would much rather use scare tactics like getting rid of 50 teachers and cutting sports to get peoples attention.
@ Shawn, Thanks for asking that question. The employee does NOT pay for benefits but they may pay for family coverage. Those two facts among others need to make it out in print. Lots of rumors out there. Why aren't they inline with industry? It's about the kids right? (wink wink)
Corey L also mentioned the state allowed them to take money from one fund (building maint. I think) and put it into the general fund. WTH? He also said enrollment has declined by ~200 each yr over the last 8 yrs. They need $100 Million for even fewer kids? Seems counter intuitive to me? Kind of like the time I was hoodwinked into the technology ref. which I voted for. Ended up laptops went to Oakland JH and no one else. Fool me once... I look at any levy with a cynical eye now. I'm glad this thread isn't just brainwashed rhetoric with no useful info. Thanks for the facts! You too puddin ;-)
Marc Pentland
8:02 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
I will agree with you on this fund to that fund and then back to a fund but cant fund that fund with funds from other funds, thats infuriating!
Marc Pentland
8:17 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
yeah that laptop thing was BS, but look at some of your fellow tax payers as well here kids, Rutherfords PAC (parent action committee) which gives schools money threatened to stop giving Rutherford money if they had to "expand" the district boundaries to include kids in that school from outside of liberty, and guess what? last eyar thats EXACTLY what happeend, they were goingto move the liens and the elite got it "changed".............to quote President Lincoln, a house divided cannot stand.
Marc Pentland
8:01 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Just as it is in EVERY industry, some are good, some are not, I wonder if you liberal dems cry and complain about the way Obama uses your tax money and gives it to other countries, probably not huh? or that the state of Minnesota spends an incredible amount of tax payer money on welfare, which includes housing, feeding and medical care for illegal’s as well. I also wonder if you know that our schools draw from 5 major low income housing, what I like to call "Welfare Villages" and that there is a very large group of kids with special needs, that need special instruction, special help and what not.
Randy Marsh
8:25 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Compared to nearly every other district in the state, Stillwater has far less low-income students. Take a look at the free and reduced lunch numbers sometime. For someone who comments so much you sure seem to have a loose grasp on the fact or are simply reciting inaccurate information from the district, I can't decide which. The only think you have been right about so far is the fact that Rutherford situation with the boundaries was simply an act of cowardice by our school board.
Marc Pentland
8:01 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
do any of you take that into account? or the fact that teachers do NOT just teach academics, oh no, someone mentioned bullying for example, now correct me if I am wrong here but does bullying fall on the academic or the parental/child relationship side of the coin, are you saying that if your kids bully ohters it's the schools fault? and if so how do you come to that conclussion, and whos fault is it that some kids are bullying others, is that the school and the etachers fault as well? where does parental responsability come into this? the same can be said for the academic side, everyone wants to blame the schools but they don't work with their kids,, want to blame the teachers but make excuses for their kids, want to saddle YOUR kids success with their pay, are you kdiding me with that? and if your "all for that" then consider this, should police get paid depending on how many people commit crimes? should Walmart be held accountable for shop lifters? after all it is their store right?
Marc Pentland
8:05 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Answer me this question, because with this debate it always amazes me how fast and how much people want to blame eveyrthign on teachers including the fact that they make a good living, ya know what, maybe none of you are educated beyond highschool or community college and don't relaize that education is what we like to call in the working world EXPENSIVE, they invested in their education to make a decent living!! and your faulting them for that? your actually faulting people who got the education, negotiated the contract and get what they get? using your logic, since the economy is bad you wouldnt mind a pay cut, a benefit cut and a reduction in hours right?
North Hill Dude
12:38 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Marc, $0.77 of every dollar spent goes to salaries and benefits check the district website. Those are TAXPAYER dollars not mythical $$. Why is this NOT on the list of cuts? They want $100,000,000 and we have had declining enrollment the last 8 years according to Corey Lunn. That is an awful big number and it should be questioned.
My wife has had a salary freeze with no 401K company match for the last four years. It's common in the private sector to ask employees to sacrifice to save jobs yet one cannot question taxpayer funded positions? Why not?
Marc Pentland
8:11 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
I also love the "all teachers make 70K a year plus, wow, tlak about brianwashed here is the listing of what they make, all make 70K good lord.................http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/minnesota/teacher-salary-in-stillwater-area-public-school-district/ you will see by this, that the AVERAGE salary, and for those of you who don't know what that means, thats an averaging of all salaries, is $46,838. HARDLY the 70K a year on day one puddin head suggested. That is pretty much 22 dollars an HOUR after you average, again that means some below some above. now with a Masters degree (which for you noneducated) is roughly 6 years full bore, much longer in some cases, for 20 an hour, and you thinkt hats too much huh???
Irving
11:49 am on Monday, February 25, 2013
Why do teachers need a masters degree, and why should they be paid more because they have one? $48K with a couple weeks off for the holidays and summers free is a pretty astounding wage, especially when coupled with an amazing benefits package.
Randy Marsh
3:48 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
I believe they actually work about 190 days out of the year, Irving, which is more than 50 less than most.
Marc Pentland
8:15 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Also figure the student to etacher ratio is usually about 19-1 and thats not good enough you want them to have more in their classrooms? really? now tell that to the parents of kids who need more help than some. And furthermore Teachers teach they are not there to parent, make better citizens of your kids, teach them right from wrong and how to treat others last I checked thats called anyone? anyone? PARENTING! someone said their kid was bullied and the school did nothing about it, or that they had to carry their stuff in a back pack from class to class OH GOOD GOD NO! OH THE HUMANITY! was afriad to ask for a diff locker? why? afraid to ask for a locker? what the heck? the locker cops would ebat him with hoses or what?
Marc Pentland
3:56 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Irving if you had a Masters degree youd expect to be compensated more wouldnt you?? no no no of course you wouldnt "snicker"
Irving
11:02 am on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
If I were a sanitation engineer and I had a MFA, should I be paid more? If I'm a software writer that generates millions for my company but never got a degree, should I be paid less?
Realistically, what does a degree get you when you are teaching kids? Does a 5th grade math teacher need to know calculus to teach 5th grade math? In the final analysis, an 8th grader with some pedagogy skills should know everything they need to teach a 7th grader.
Marc Pentland
8:22 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
As long as there have been teachers people have complained about what they make, what they pay into thier benefits and what they should get, which in the eyes of most of the people on theiese boards is nothing short of Walmart wages. I understand the jealousey even thogh eveyrone says "nooooo I am not jealous, which is compelte BS becuase even I am jealous but I am also a realist, I know I could not handle being in a class room all day with upwards of 30 kids, lets be real some of you can't handle your own kids for a few hours! do you really think all there is to being a teacher is raking in the bucks? then you have no clue what a teacher is or what a teacher does, many of them treat your kids YOUR kids like their own, they worry about them, try to help them, talk to them, go the extra mile to support them, like going to sports events, and someone on here had the nerve to say "they get paid for it" if all you can see is dollar signs then you are truly blind to what teachers really are. Do you get phone calls and invites to weddings, birthdays and letters of thanks 25 years after you serve a happy meal to someone out the drive thru window?? teachers DO!
Marc Pentland
8:26 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Anger Susan, yeah it pisses me off becuase all anyone on here cares about is what someone makes in money not what they do with the lives entrusted to them every day year after year, very sad that people are so blind that all they care about in their hearts is pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them, sad, you should be ashamed of yoursleves, think about the self serving, glutton teachers that made a difference in yur lives, who helped you out, who made you work harder to become something, nice to know they didnt care about you afetr all, they just wanted your money.
Randy Marsh
8:29 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Do me a favor and take a breath at some point, Marc, I can hear your hyperventilating all the way over here.
Marc Pentland
8:39 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
LOL your almost right, as you can see my typing skills get away from me when I get worked up, and I have absolutely NO diplomatic skills at all, but the bottom line is this, I won't suffer one bit if a levy doesn't pass, but your kids will, think about that.
Marc Pentland
8:37 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Randy Randy Randy puddin head, do you know what free and reduced lunch is? our district has far less povery than say where? St.Paul?Mpls? ya think? ya know why? heres a clue its called "population" and if you REALLY want to go to the free and reduced thing we can do that. 7.4% for 2011 stats, General District Statistics
Per capita income: $30,395
Median family income: $80,638
Median male income: $42,384
Median female income: $25,926
Median income of a renter: $27,753
Median income of a home owner: $76,305
Number of Households making:
10 - 25k 25 - 40k 40 - 60k 60 - 100k 100k+
900 1,120 2,255 4,960 4,640
people tend to be better off here becuase I dunno maybe they worked and got educated?? what do you think?
Marc Pentland
8:42 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
If you support nothing else you have to support the technology piece, and I am not talking about some lame laptop program that was badly administered and seemed to me like a scam on the part of the administration. But rather real tech and software and programs for kids. I am still looking at Unity School District in Balsam Lake Wis thats is somehting we should look at here in the long run it would reduce costs expidentially. take a look at it
Marc Pentland
9:42 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Susan you are delussional at best, teachers ignore parents they dont have numerous conferences that many parents do not even bother to show up for, but they ignore the parents? and mums the word in the school system? conspiracy? and you know how often teachers ignore these inquiries how? and if your inquiries are being ignored how do you know they are being so if you dont know that they know to ifnorm you that you are being ignored, your logic is flawed, your so called "knowledge" is baseless. incoreect information? why cause it doesnt jive with what you think? I took the average salary infor direct from the state page or is that wrong too? I included the link guess they should have cleared the information with you first to gauge its accuracy? delussional indeed!
Marc Pentland
9:44 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
I ahev no cause to help as I said, its your kdis, it effects me not at all, if the jealousey blinded do not wish to support their own schools or their system so be it, then you have no place or business complaining about the system at all int hese boards, you have made up your minds, BUT then you have no cause, no right and certasinly no place to complain and when I drive up to your window you don't even have to ask, yes, I would like fries with that.
Marc Pentland
9:46 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
and perhaps later on, I may even allow you the opportunity to wash my car, but, wash your hands first
tax payer
10:01 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Marc - we get it. We are all passionate about our opinion. I for sure am no exception. To that end we get it. 1) You will vote for any levy - period. 2)You love the teachers, and 3) apparently something bad happened to you in Wi. You are not changing anybodies mind here - Especially mine - and I am the real puddin' head you quoted earlier...Give it a rest.
Marc Pentland
9:49 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
I will agree with you on that one point Susan, the anti bullying thing is not working, they tried, it isn't, no one should be made a victim of. I think it would be a step in the right direction to have what amounts to a type of court for such things, that may be a tad harsh to some, but I think that is the next staep for the afore mentioned programs do not work, will not work, and do little to quell the behaviors of some.
Marc Pentland
9:55 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
and Dear Delussional (Susan) those salaries were not STAE averages they were this districts averages STILLWATERS ya know what that is, the city in which you live and surrounding communties comprise a "school district" it wasnt state salary averages pudding head, are you with me? can you feel it? look at the page again it says "district salary averages" read, just read, and use your vowels
Lake Elmo Mom
11:13 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Marc- Just give up, because you won't be able to change what Susan, Randy or Taxpayer think about our schools, our teachers and our children. Instead, focus your energy in other ways to get the message out that our community must work together to support our schools. Stillwater Patch is not the place to do that!
Brent Voight
1:15 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013
Fortunately there aren't a bevy of readers of the Patch, because I think I am dumber for having taken the time to read all these comments. I tire quickly of of people who want to only criticize or play devil's advocate without ever praising at least some aspect of the entity they are criticizing AND offering a viable alternative. It's very easy for Randy and others to come on the Patch and complain about every entity out there. And it takes guts to stick your neck out against the establishment, that is until your antagonism is your brand, then it's a matter of protocol and that's what I sense it is with many on these forums. I was at the same parent forums the district held last week, and for the one poster to comment about the 77% of district budget going to personnel and then not fairly reflect that of the $11 million proposed for one-year cuts, many are in the area of reducing labor costs. Frankly, I am proud that I am a tax payer in a district that highly values our teachers. The fact that our teachers are among the better paid pleases me because that means more teachers want to teach here and we should have a better pick of more highly qualified teachers. I want teachers who have advanced degrees--thereby raising their salary--teaching my kids. What's needed from many on these forums is perspective. Some here have it, others don't. I spend hours each week in my kids' classrooms and am proud of the district. I do not seek perfection as some here seem to. I seek greatness.
CC
12:32 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Brent, that was very well stated. My feelings exactly. This was the most sensible statement by far!
Irving
11:58 am on Monday, February 25, 2013
I tried to read all the comments and I apologize if someone else already made this point.
Personal experience says that you can't swing a stuffed giraffe without hitting a teacher wanting to find work. If we dropped teacher and staff wages enough to balance the budget, would any teachers quit? I really doubt it, and if any did we'd likely be able to replace them easily.
I really like the teachers my children have had, and I have a great deal of respect for them, but that doesn't mean they are exempt from the same forces that have caused many other people to take reduced wages.
Realistically, increasing the tax I pay is reducing my wage, so it's pretty obvious someone is going to have to take a pay cut...
Randy Marsh
2:32 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Well said, Irving. I also think my kids have had wonderful teachers in this district to date. I just can't rationalize the salary and benefit increases the union milks out of the school district each year when the district also claims their funding remains flat or decreases each year. If the district expects us to buy that rhetoric, the only safe assumption is to assume they are idiots for willingly increasing the largest portion of their budget (salaries) each year. So which is it, the district being dishonest or gutless cowards getting bullied by the union?
Marc Pentland
3:49 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
replace them with what???? they already tried to pass a thing where anyone with a college degree could pretty much be a "teacher" really?? I have three of them, I would make the worlds WORST teacher, how come no one here is crying about the 150K plus the superintendant makes? out of curiosity
Randy Marsh
4:30 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
I honestly don't have a problem with paying someone more than $150,000 a year when they are responsible for overseeing a dozen schools and their principals, dealing with a school board that can't get out of its own way and an operation that spends more than $100 million each year.
Marc Pentland
3:52 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Also, for the record, as I use my real name and not hide behind south park characters or other things, I do NOT think that there needs to be a salary or benefit increase in this district, it would be silly to think that with all the things going on with the economy that any increase in taxes should go to an increase in wages, what I think is, any money attained now should simply go to the schools themselves, NOT to wage increases, that is not needed (in case anyone thought I was barkign for wage increases I think they are more than good, more than great where they currently are)
Marc Pentland
3:53 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
AND I am telling you, the technology (don't go into that stupid laptop fiasco thing again) needs to be upgraded, it is so lame and old flip top cell phone has more tech in it that the Lily Lake so called "computer" lab
Randy Marsh
4:25 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Marc, I don't know how many would be as adamant about containing those costs if not for the fact that the teachers union takes the district (and, let's be honest, the taxpayers) behind the woodshed every time the sides agree to a new contract. That ship has sailed, the salary freezes needed to start about 6 years ago.
Marc Pentland
5:01 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
yup, the union needs to be "reshaped" I have had issue with eons about some teachers/staff who are not doing their job but cannot be let go due to the whole tenure thing, I think, and this is correct thinking, that if you suck at your job, your ineffective or don't care about why your there you should be able to be let go, that alone sends the wrong message, put in your time and then you can do what you want...........thats a big "uhhh no"
North Hill Dude
6:36 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Marc, you are all over the place. We seem to agree on several points except why aren't district salaries and benefits up for questioning? The district has either misrepresented or lied in the past yet we are supposed blindly throw them another $11M. I would hope a highly educated guy such as yourself could refrain from calling people names.
Randy Marsh
6:49 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
I actually would support the "another $11 million" North Hill Dude, because I think at the very least continuing the existing operating levy is not too outrageous a request. It will be interesting to see just how much extra the district thinks it needs and how they are going to ensure it's not just going to pay for raises.
Marc Pentland
7:51 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
Nope, not really all over the place, I don’t think that teachers should have what they have worked for taken away from them, but I also do not think that with the district’s policy of “gloom and doom” we need this we need that from tax payers for schools and for kids and just give it over to salary increases or things of that nature is dead wrong. I know we need to upgrade and update several facets of our system HOWEVER I do not think a pay increase for a superintendant which is pretty much a mouth piece, let alone the asst sups or their assistants is the proper use of tax payer funds, directly towards the good of the pupils in our schools (and this includes good teachers, technology etc) is fine with me, any other use INCLUDING pay increases is NOT and my wife knows this is how I feel because while I do not advocate punishing the teachers in our district by taking from them I do not feel there needs to be an increase in already generous salaries and benefits (I know that they are looking at a new medical insurance plan) family insurance anywhere is expensive BUT I think they could kick in a bit more to help cover some costs. Don’t even get me going on this new in school clinic thing I have NO clue what that nightmare is suppose to accomplish (but I don’t think it is a good idea especially if it uses tax payer dollars). We do agree on many things, but vilifying teachers is not one of them.
Marc Pentland
7:53 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
I am educated yet unrefined :)
Randy Marsh
8:39 pm on Monday, February 25, 2013
I'm not sure how educated you are about several of the things you rail against, Marc. If you believe what has been tried elsewhere with favorable results the clinic will actually save the district more than enough money to cover the cost of creating it within a relatively short period of time. I'm glad you want the district to kick in even more money for the teachers health plans. How about like the private sector where the employees are picking up the bulk of those increases. Also, you don't seem to care for the new superintendent, a feeling that has no doubt been influenced by your wife. If he ruffles some feathers of the rank and file (some might say the fat and sassy) and I think that's a good thing. Also, did you miss the part where he has trimmed a lot of dead weight from central services?
Markus
10:06 am on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
It is surprising that the commentary revolves mostly around a proposed levy granting the district additional funding but no one argues whether the district should get any funding at all.
No one questions why people find it acceptable for Democratic union members with an agenda to imprison their kids for 13 years in state-of-the-art daycare centers all the while threatening to confiscate their homes if they don't pay up.
In any other industry competition rules. If you have a product people like to buy, someone is going to find a way to make it cheaper and better and undersell you. But mention competition in education and you get PhD's and union bosses waging all out campaigns to protect their precious taxpayer funded monopoly.
Like most government entities, the idea of public schools was maybe well intentioned, but has spiraled out of control and needs to be reigned in or even dismantled. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children rather than forcing their neighbor to at gunpoint.
The idea that "good" public schools increase property values is arguable. It really is a canard. If that was the stated goal and taxpayer funded services did indeed increase property values, then would it not stand to reason we would have public grocery stores, public clinics and public gas stations to increase property values?
The free market works in every other industry. To say it doesn't work in education is being intellectually dishonest.
Keith O.
10:59 am on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
Intellectually dishonest, Markus? Then what do you consider hyperbole like "imprison their kids," "state-of-the-art daycare centers," threatening to confiscate their homes" and "forcing their neighbor to at gunpoint"? When you use such ridiculous exaggeration, people stop listening to the point you're trying to make.
It's not a monopoly. Everyone has several choices to avoid the gulag that is Stillwater Public Schools: homeschool, charter school, private school, move.
Randy Marsh
11:38 am on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
Exactly which communities with strong property values have poor schools and which areas where houses are cheap have good schools, Markus? We've seen what happens when non-traditional public schools get their hands on tax dollars, they become corrupt (look no further than St. Croix Prep). Have you looked into the for-profit colleges cropping up everywhere? How's that working out?
Alex Mundy
1:17 pm on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
Not a surprising position for Markus, given that he's practiced home schooling and advocating for non-schooling. There are plenty of people in the district who don't believe in altruism, although most of those don't have kids in the school system. Fortunately, there are more who see value in the pursuit of higher standards that attracts like-minded families to the Stillwater district.
Having said that, support should not be interpreted as carte blanche for the district to get whatever money it is asking for without confronting issues about salary and benefits. For public relations considerations alone, you simply can't take 77 percent of the budget off the table and focus on cuts to the other 23 percent. It's not a matter of jealousy like Mr. Pentland would have you believe. It's a matter of reality when the financial alarm is being sounded.
Markus
2:53 pm on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
"Then what do you consider hyperbole like "imprison their kids," "state-of-the-art daycare centers," threatening to confiscate their homes" and "forcing their neighbor to at gunpoint"?"
It's hardly hyperbolic. It's taking each of those statements to their logical end. Try not complying with the compulsory attendance laws or not paying your taxes. Eventually the government shows up with guns.
With the advent of ECFE, the government now has the opportunity to "educate" your child from birth on. Do we really need the government to provide education for infants and toddlers? Anybody with Google can see home school children score significantly higher and typically school for 3 hours a day. The education establishment has attempted to convince us they need the kids for 7 or 8 hours a day for 18 years to produce "educated" people. It's just not the case.
If it were not for the built in daycare aspect of government education, most parents would be in a quandary. Again, that's not exaggerating, it's a hard truth for most addicted to the government school paradigm.
It's also ironic that the state offers daycare subsidies mostly to mothers who work outside the home, but those that choose to stay home and raise/educate their children get nothing. As always government has their priorities backwards. Rather than encouraging a traditional parenting model, the state discourages it by subsidizing the opposite.
Markus
3:07 pm on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
"Exactly which communities with strong property values have poor schools and which areas where houses are cheap have good schools, Markus?"
You're suggesting that "good" schools result in high property values. I would argue the inverse is true. Affluence will always have a positive affect due to more financial resources and parental involvement.
Allow parents to opt out of the system (that means taking their dollars with them) and you'd see for profit or private schools pop up all over the place. St. Croix Prep is still a public school. The fact that it's wildly popular would suggest people are desperate for alternatives. That being said St. Croix Prep is hardly a panacea.
Keith O.
3:51 pm on Tuesday, February 26, 2013
I don't think that's the "logical end" for most people, Markus. You seem to build your arguments around your paranoid perception of being forced to do things by the government. I wasn't forced to take my kids to ECFE, but I certainly took advantage of the opportunity to meet and interact with other parents while my children were in their "indoctrination" sessions. Or, as ECFE called it, play time.
There's nothing wrong with home schooling, but it's simply not practical for most families where both parents are forced to work (not by the government, but by their creditors). We're "addicted to the government school paradigm" of 7 to 8 hours a day because it conveniently coincides with the typical work day.
By "traditional parenting model," I assume you mean the father works outside the home for financial gain and the mother stays home with the kids. I was fortunate enough to be home with four kids until they were old enough for school. And I would disagree that parents who choose to stay home and raise their children get nothing. I think the experience and the memories are priceless.
If we subsidize anything, we should subsidize professionals who specialize in educating our children and guiding them through a broad range of experiences they could never get at home or on the Internet. Oh yeah, we already do that.
tax payer
11:46 am on Friday, March 1, 2013
Looks like no need for a levy - Yahoo...................
Minnesota deficit forecast shrinks: St. Paul Pioneer Press 3-1-2013...
The forecast was especially good news for schools.
It projects a $295 million fund balance in Minnesota's treasury at the end of the current fiscal year June 30. State law requires $290 million of that money go to pay off part of the $1.1 billion the state owes schools in delayed payments.