I am amazed that in a district with as strong and vital a music program as Stillwater has, that the powers that be are so short-sighted (and/or ignorant of the value of the arts in education) are willing to throw away such a valuable educational component. Yes, let's look at administrative waste instead and INCREASE FUNDING to the arts.

The music department at SAHS is one of the best in the nation. Not to keep it going is extremely sad. What do we need to do to convince our city that our schools need to be funded and our children need their support?

You could cut 300,000 off the district superintendents salary alone save the music programs and the superintendent could still be wealthy...

Fact: Dr. Lunn"s (current superintendent) salary is $160,000 and Dr. Queener's salary if $137,000 which equals $297,000 which is close to your 300,000.
Question: How could they still be wealthy? Do you want them to do their jobs for no money?

Susan, how is the article relating to stillwater city council coaxes vist-tek to town have anything to do with our School District? Also, I have gone to the website you cited in one of your posts, but I can't find any reference to average teacher salaries by school district. Instead, you can find a listing of administrators and teachers salares for 2011-2012 by school district. What I noticed was that the top 22 names listed as making the most money were adminstrators (superintendents, principals, and directors). Granted, some of these administrators work during the summer, but not all of them. Also, these are last years salaries and I seem to remember that there was some reorganization of Central Administration which has affected salaries etc.
I am asking everyone who posts here to please do your homework and stop stating opionions as fact.

The district superintendent's salary is public information. He is among the lowest paid superintendents in the metro and does not make anywhere close to $300,000. Districts are required by law to have a superintendent, so cutting the position entirely is not an option either.

This make me sick to my stomach. Don't start kids in music until 7th grade? Good luck, they will have lost their interest to learn or afraid to try for many reasons. I have never understood why Stillwater schools never had a marching band or other musical activities. Take a look at these activities that other schools (and parents) support and fund. These are also not cheap but allows kids who do not want to do sports another avenue to be a part of a team. http://www.northstarcircuit.org/

Both my kids went through the music program here in town and my son started in the 4th grade. If it wasn't for the dedication of the musics staff at all three schools he atttended, he would not have the job he has now. He plays the trumpet for the United States Marine Corps Commandant's Own Drum and Bugle Corp based in DC and represents our country all over the world. I thank the Stillwater music program every day for that!

There has GOT to be a better way, other things to cut, and, the Board of Director's needs to better do their jobs to make this happen. That means getting out there and talking to the people or whatever needs to happen. For such a smart school district, this is UNACCEPTABLE.

Well things like the ALC can't be cut down anymore, they're running out of options.

I'm a recent student of the SAHS school system, and respectively, its music program. It's completely senseless to be cutting funding to the music program, when it's one of Stillwater's strongest assets. Cutting funding to Stillwater's music program would be tantamount to an Olympic runner amputating his leg and expecting to perform the same. Stillwater's program is nationally recognized, and impacts hundreds of children, teaching them life lessons far beyond music. It is a lifelong gift, and I maintain that it has been crucial to my development as a person. It has taught me dedication, commitment, and discipline. Repeated studies have demonstrated over and over again that children who participate in music also perform better academically. I do not believe I would've been accepted to Stanford University if I hadn't participated in music through this incredible program.

Certainly there are many residents of Stillwater who don't have children, and aren't directly affected by the reduction of the music program, except they wouldn't have to pay extra in the proposed levy. However, by convincing them that having a school system with a strong music program and subsequent academic reputation, their property values go up. By targeting the voters adamant to pass the levy, the school stands a better chance of keeping their elementary music programs.

Then again, I'm just a college student. What would I know?

Randy, say what? A sacred cow? Check your facts. The music program has seen cuts too like all the other programs. I'm just thankful my three kids made it through before these drastic measues became a reality. And, even though they're done, i plan to support the levy and you should too as the program draws families to Stillwater. That means a healthier community and higher property values. Steve

Steven higher property taxes do not equal higher property value. My previous comment was more or less to make a point that money can be trimmed off the top rather than the bottom all the time. I think our schools have issues spending on the wrong things. LCD monitors, smart boards, lap tops, etc. I understand that our society is moving forward and the kids need to learn new technology but let's learn to crawl before we run.

I'm a college student who started out my college career as a mathematics and music major at a very well-respected music program. When I came in as a college freshman, I was way ahead of the freshmen, sophomores, and some juniors due to my experience at SAHS.

From my experience in the orchestra and band programs at the university I attend, I can say that SAHS' music programs are just as good as the programs at this university - in my opinion, even better in some respects. The people who work in the music department at SAHS are seriously good at what they do. The music programs at the universities in the area know this very well by the quality of students that audition at them.

I agree with Kathryn in that the music program has taught me dedication, commitment, and discipline more than anything else that I've experienced in my college career. I also find it very disturbing that the district is considering cutting the elementary school programs first, as it would cause the program as a whole to deteriorate gradually.

It takes years to develop musical skill; colleges will look down upon those who don't have it. It's analogous to being an athlete - one needs to practice being a musician consistently. However, unlike athleticism, music is a collaboration of many of the subjects that we study (see http://tinyurl.com/bftjttn ).

On a personal note, I find it depressing that of the school programs I've read up on, the first program to receive cuts is usually the music program. (As a reminder, I am a mathematics major.) Not only does the cutting of music programs occur at school districts, but even the music program at the university I attend has made cuts, and professors who are crucial to the program here have left and moved elsewhere despite how well-respected the music program is. Yes, it is great to keep funding for mathematics and science programs, but music is extremely useful for an understanding of how humans function.

Consider how music is used in our daily entertainment, and how we hear it in our televisions, YouTube, etc. If you have some sort of media exposure, you've had some sort of musical exposure. The difference between a musician and an average listener is that a musician can understand the components of music more than your average listener. Regardless of how useless some of you may find this to be, music is a part of our media - and the number of people in our future that will study music will dwindle if this trend continues. If people keep complaining about the media, people should learn about what parts create the media. Therefore, we need to keep the music programs going, and in my opinion, District 834 should understand this more than any other district in MN right now. Cut the high school program if you need to, but don't cut the program which gets the kids started.

It's interesting how they refuse to touch their precious sports. Every year the levy is up for debate, they put both the music and the AlC on the chopping block. There are outside opportunities for sports, yes I'll admit there are outside opportunities for music as well, but what is going to affect the student more in the long run? Why do we refuse to acknowledge the sports as a possible budget cut?

Hmmm let's compare ticket sales of football and hockey to that of music programs... Sports fund themselves...

Music programs at Stillwater have consistently been heralded as one of the top programs in the nation (Randy) -- when I graduated, there had been only one program for one year that had not received the highest marks at the state level, and that was due to the group participating at a national level festival instead. I work with individuals in the music education industry in Colorado. When they hear where I'm from, they nod their heads and talk about how "Stillwater's just at a different level than us."
Long term growth. That's what needs to be the talking point here. If all we care about is what our tax bill and what our property values are now, then cut away. But if we, for a moment, look to what Stillwater will become as we chip away, then what becomes of our future? What young family wants to take their kids to a school that cuts a class period from the day to save money? What family invests in their future in a community that won't? Your property values will be worthless if its not a community where the youth of tomorrow want to raise families.

1989 graduate of SHS, member of this great music program. Do not cut the music program. Find a way.

I'm a 1999 graduate of SAHS and also a tax payer. I agree with Kathryn. I had the opportunity to be a part of the concert orchestra led by Mr. James Hainlen. I believe that it enriched my high school experience in many ways. I was an AP student and I was surrounded by bright kids that made me want to be better and I was challenged every single day. Say what you will Randy Marsh, but the truth of the matter is ... It doesn't appear like you were a part of the music program so you're just playing devil's advocate and finding fault in every pro-music statement here. Sports AND music are different beasts that both teach patience, dedication and hard work. I think there needs to be a way to find room for both, because they're both very important assets.

As a former SHS band member (back when we marched, played at sporting events, received private instruction and attended summer band on taxpayer’s dime), decades long ISD834 taxpayer, and current junior high jazz band and orchestra parent, I am offended by the skewed fine arts-to-sports comparison and applaud the high school professionals for putting the root of the music program before their needs. This does not surprise me as these individuals exemplify modest excellence. Ask any music student parent about the investment (activity fees, private instruction, instrument rental, attire, event transportation fees), fundraising (magazine sales, Practice-a-thon, Cabaret, Rummage Sale) and outcome (discipline, teamwork, pride, learning the “universal language” of music, scholarship opportunities, math skills, etc.) and you will know why this proposed program elimination stirs a passionate debate to maintain - if not enhance - the only reason why we remain in the Stillwater school district.

Randy, sorry I'm not a taxpayer of Stillwater. Unfortunately, because I'm working to pay for college, my taxes go to Minneapolis instead. I suppose I could move back when I'm more established, but that would be contingent on whether or not Stillwater continues its elementary music program.

If you want proof that Stillwater's program stands head and shoulders above the rest, consider this: the vast majority of COLLEGES in the metro area have weaker programs than Stillwater's. I've been to many music performances at my university, and they pale in comparison to the high school's concerts. There's a lot of raw talent at Stillwater, but more importantly, there's a system that encourages the development of raw talent into a higher art form. I have a friend who didn't touch her instrument for a year, walked up to the conductor, told him where she was from and played a little bit, and she became the concert mistress of the band, which is generally something only seniors are allowed the honor of. The program's reputation precedes it, because it's really that good.

Administration would be a big one. And I do understand that while keeping up with technology is important, I personally felt that anything that was taught on a Smartboard could've just as easily been done on a whiteboard. So those would be the two areas I would scale back on.

I'm a 1994 SAHS alum, a former member of both Concert Band and Orchestra. On the practical side, music provided me with so many skills that I continue to use to this day, in addition to reading music and playing my instrument. I had access to experiences and challenges that were different than any presented in my academic courses. These were key to making me who I am today.
To add a slightly new perspective to the conversation, I have worked as an educator here in the TC for 10 yrs (French at middle/high school) and witness the dire straits that ALL local districts seem to be facing. MANY programs are being cut around the state, particularly "extras" like language and music.
Some sad trends I've noticed during levy/budget debates:
1) K12 education is perceived as an area that can afford some "skimping"
2) School staff are commonly accused of being overpaid and underworked
We can argue these points another day, but I do applaud District 834's music staff for trying to redirect the music cuts proposed in a way that would be less harmful in the long-term. Short of avoiding the cuts entirely, if it would give Stillwater's music program a chance in the long-term in the face of these financial challenges, I support the difficult recommendations they have made.
Eliminating elementary and middle "feeder programs" for non-mainstream subjects is just the beginning of the slow (or not so slow) death to an elective program, whether it is art , music, foreign language, sports...

REPLY TO RANDY: You ask a very good question that I would like to know as well (request to Shawn to explore?). In fact I DID ask this while serving on the Budget Adjustment Committee last year – where we were immediately told there would be “no sacred cows” when looking at proposed areas to cut. Yet, when we asked if it would be possible to INCORPORATE 5/6 band and orchestra as part of the curriculum we were met with an answer that could easily have a price tag attached to it.
REQUEST TO SHAWN/ISD 834: What are the TOTAL salaries for athletics? Do ALL athletic departments generate revenue? How many student athletes receive college scholarships in comparison to academic and fine arts? Are there any accessible public complaints on record regarding ANY of the coaching staff? Can you cite any studies that correlate athletics preparing students for a global career environment? How many students that try out for a sport actually get to participate on a regular basis?
Also, where on the Minnesota Department of Education’s website regarding graduation standards does it mention physical education or athletics as a requirement?
Voters will decide this fall whether to support a district that postures revenue generating programs over those that offer a history of lifelong learning…

In a performing group, EVERYBODY PLAYS! No one is on the bench. Music education is not just for music's sake. When students learn music they are using more of their brain. I am a music teacher and I have told students that many times. Especially when they are reading music symbols, translating them into sound through their voices or instruments. On instruments they must use both hands equally, which requires use of more of the brain, remember that the right brain controls the left side of the body and vice versa. Using both hands requires both sides of the brain to be active. I'm not a doctor, but this all makes sense.

Talk to Michael Hiatt of the Perpich Center for Arts Education. When he taught at Anoka they cut the elementary programs. It took up to 10 years to recover the HS programs once they had been decimated. Stillwater Music educators are on the right track. I'm proud to read that they are advocating for the 'feeder' programs at the elementary level.

Sports are important, but don't forget that they are extra-curricular, where music is curricular. Music is math, music is reading, music is language, music is cultural, music is science (physics of sound). In short, music is cross-curricular. I hope the voters of the district have their priorities straight. Don't let a successful program die. You won't get it back. Good luck.

@ Randy -- no other endeavor exercises both sides of the brain the way music does. None. Not sports, not home economics. It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. Music is academic and cross-disciplinary.

As far as "everybody plays": I believe Nancy is referring to the fact that nobody sits on the bench/sidelines in music class. Everyone participates, learns, and is expected to work hard. Music is a very difficult task master, and it teaches self-discipline. And it is VERY competitive. You want first chair? You want to be in the first section of violins? You work your *ss off to get there in 834 programs. I knew kids who practiced 4-6 hours a day. Not kidding. Real life is tough in the arts, and ESPECIALLY music. It's just as tough to make it into a major orchestra in the US as it is to make it into the NFL. In some ways it is tougher because the music kid doesn't often get the free ride big scholarship to a major university.

Ask anyone who plays in a major orchestra if they are working in a "socialist" organization . . . ask them if anyone ever "loses" . . . I think you'll find the answer surprising.

I guess I don't need to ask Randy about his political affiliation as well. That is not the debate here. Thanks to Edward for understanding and further clarifying my point that everyone in a musical performing group gets to participate equally. Every part matters.

One more fact to consider. Music requires a greater focus and attention to detail, when a note or passage is played wrong it is usually clear. Passing in math, or any other subject, is what, 65%? Listen to music played with 65% accuracy and you won't listen long! Even music with 95% accuracy is not pleasant. Check the link to the example that follows. This is Jack Stamp, a professor of music. Last I knew he was in Cincinnati, at the Indiana University of Pennsylvania.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw4vqll9cAM&playnext=1&list=PL47CAB4D79041D73F&feature=results_video

One more tool for advocacy. http://save-music.org/?page_id=41

Good luck.

Has anyone on the board or administration checked the numbers? Where do all the students who are scheduled for performing group rehearsals go during that newly open class time? How many teachers will be needed to take over for the large numbers of students in each performing group? No one seems to remember that in HS groups, teachers/directors have numbers that can be up to 100+, or at least 80+ students during that time, even 60 is a reasonable number for a choir, band, or orchestra. Placed in traditional classes that's three to five teachers who will be needed to teach or supervise those students.

Can you say "reverse economics"?

My first experience seeing Drum Beauty (an annual event in the Twin Cities) was at the Stillwater High School stadium. The talent of those musicians and the commitment to perform to the best of their ability is humbling. What kind of damage is done to the student hoping to have a career as a musician, or the student who is passionate about studying music who is unknowingly extremely gifted, if they don't have the opportunity to be in a music program until High School! The arts are just as important to education as math and science. Cutting the music department is short-sighted in my opinion.

District 834 has taken a page out of current sequester politics. Make proposed cuts seem unbearable while ignoring the real problem, Out of control spending. The district budget is ~$100,000,000 per year! They would lead you to believe it's all about the kids right? Just because 90% of MN schools have a levy doesn't mean we need one. 834 has pulled the wool over voters eye's before so forgive me if I am cynical. Why can't they (any gov't agency) work within the budget?